From the art of small-batch coffee roasting to the revival of loose leaf tea culture, Alison Pilborough reveals how craft beverages at Fleurieu Roast and Wyverstone Tea are being reimagined in Aldinga, while The Saucermen take us back to those white-knuckle Devil’s Elbow descents.
Alison Pilborough bridges two worlds often seen as incompatible – artisanal coffee roasting and premium loose leaf tea blending – offering insights from her Aldinga Eco Village base about why some roasts deserve second chances and why tea drinkers are increasingly seeking calm through chamomile.
The SA Drink of the Week ventures into new territory with Fleurieu Roast’s 18-hour cold brew coffee, challenging even the most orthodox espresso lovers to expand their horizons.
We wrap up with The Saucermen’s “Devil’s Elbow”, their rockabilly tribute to that infamous stretch of the old South Eastern Freeway that tested nerves and brakes in equal measure before the Heysen Tunnels arrived.
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Running Sheet: Small-Batch Coffee Revolution At Fleurieu Roast Aldinga
00:00:00 Intro
Introduction
00:03:27 SA Drink Of The Week
The South Australian Drinks Of The Week this week is the 18-hour Cold Brew by Fleurieu Roast.
Picture this: an elegant Kilner jar filled with what looks deceptively like strong-brewed tea, but is actually an 18-hour immersion cold brew using light-roasted Ethiopian natural processed beans. The result offers medicinal and herbal notes that dance across the palate before cleanly disappearing – like watching a train pass at the station, leaving just a whisper of breeze in its wake.
Steve’s initial trepidation gives way to intrigue as Alison explains how this concentrated elixir can be enjoyed neat or mixed with water/milk in a 50:50 ratio. A revelation for summer refreshment that might just convert even the most ardent hot coffee purists.
00:12:27 Ali Pilborough, Fleurieu Roast, Wyverstone Tea, and Elevenses
From the moment Alison shares her first tea memory – being allowed the “second dunking” of her mother’s teabag at age 11 – we’re drawn into a world where beverages become storytellers. Her journey from service station barista counting shots to award-winning roaster demonstrates how South Australian artisans are elevating everyday drinks into extraordinary experiences.
The conversation deepens beyond mere beverage talk as Alison reveals the meditation-like focus required during roasting, where a single phone call at the wrong moment can transform carefully sourced beans from sublime to scorched. Yet even “mistakes” find their audience – Steve’s enthusiasm for an accidentally dark-roasted batch proves the old adage about one person’s trash becoming another’s treasure.
Between discussions of “blooming the grounds” and the politics of milk in coffee, we discover why some of Alison’s tea blends now include blue lotus for enhanced dream recall – though she remains vague about some of the features of her tea-induced dreams!
Learn more about:
And we promised a list of coffee vans using Ali’s coffee:
Other places you can get Ali’s coffee include:
And if you’re partial to espresso martinis on the beach, Sourc’d Wine Bar uses Ali’s coffee in their Martini mix.
01:05:58 Musical Pilgrimage
In the Musical Pilgrimage, we feature Devil’s Elbow by The Saucermen.
The Saucermen’s “Devil’s Elbow” provides a rockabilly backdrop to memories of navigating that notorious stretch of the old South Eastern Freeway, where mastering your momentum was an art form all its own.
For those planning ahead, catch them battling Melbourne’s Scar Vendors at Ska vs Rockabilly at The Highway on March 15, 2025.
Here’s this week’s preview video
There is no featured video this week.
SFX: Throughout the podcast we use free SFX from freesfx.co.uk for the harp, the visa stamp, the silent movie music, the stylus, the radio signal SFX, the wine pouring and cork pulling SFX, and the swooshes around Siri.
An AI generated transcript – there will be errors. Check quotes against the actual audio (if you would like to volunteer as an editor, let Steve know)
407-The Adelaide Show
408 TAS MIX.output
[00:00:00] Steve Davis: Hello, Steve Davis here. Welcome to episode 408 of Adelaide Show. It’s being recorded as, um, our voiceover angels, uh, AJ and Caitlin, are busy wrapping presents and chatting with friends out there, but, um, I wanted to get the intro done for us because we’re going to solve the biggest problem that, well, it’s not, actually, it’s a really small problem, but it’s of profound interest to me, and that is, should we tolerate it?
[00:00:26] People who drink coffee and add milk to it. That question will be resolved as we have a wonderful chat with Ali Pilborough, or Alison Pilborough, to be formal, but Ali to her friends. Uh, she is from both Wyverstone Tea and also Fleurieu Roast. And so, with her Fleurieu Roast. Hat on. We’ll be going deep into the world of coffee roasting, coffee making, coffee drinking, coffee appreciation.
[00:00:56] But tea people, including Robert Godden, who is our political commentator and tea devotee, you’ll be pleased to know we also do give tea a good, solid guernsey, including in the Essay Drink of the Week. We shift gears, we actually go to a cold brew. Yes, it’s not something I tend to look out for or drink, but Ali took me to the dark cold side with that, and it could just turn out to be a really interesting alternative for a long, slow, sippy drink over a hot drink.
[00:01:32] And in the musical Pilgrimage, the Saucermen will see us out. I know, we’ve played a few of their songs in recent years, but I wanted to play Devil’s Elbow because I remember as a young person, working at 5MU at Murray Bridge, often coming back for Christmas celebrations, driving down the curly old south eastern freeway before the Heysen Tunnels existed.
[00:01:54] in my HG 70 panel van and working out the perfect way to time my roll down that hill going down Devil’s Elbow. And they’ve got a song all about it, so that’ll come up in the musical pilgrimage. I can smell the coffee. It’s time to get started.
[00:03:27] It’s fascinating with the evolution of the South Australian Drink of the Week because we have moved away from making it a mandatory inclusion. If there isn’t anything around, then we skip it so that we break that connection between Australians and South Australians and alcohol. Um, but we are kind of in a, in betwixt and between in this episode in a beautiful way because coffee is going to fill that void.
[00:03:54] And, uh, Alison Pilborough, or Ali, is our guest. You’ll hear a lot of her in just a moment in the main section of the episode, but we’re sitting down at Fleurieu Roast, and we’re about to try some cold brew that she’s brewed for our SA Drink of the Week. Ali, welcome to the Adelaide Show.
[00:04:16] Alison Pilborough: Thank you very much, Steve.
[00:04:17] It’s nice to be here.
[00:04:18] Steve Davis: Yes, now, you know Um, because we have known each other for a little while now.
[00:04:23] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:04:23] Steve Davis: Um, that what you’re about to do to me is not so much against my will, it’s more against my inclinations. Mild torture, just mild. Yes. So, um, it’s a cold brew. Now. Yes. Just, we’ll get more detail on all of this in just a moment, when we do the interview proper.
[00:04:41] But, you’re roasting these beans yourself.
[00:04:45] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:04:47] Steve Davis: Somehow you’re turning them into a cold brew. There’s a very nice looking, um, bottle in front of us with one of those wire framed lids. Is there a name for them?
[00:04:59] Alison Pilborough: That’s a Kilner jar, which is a, um, it’s a type of preserving bottle. Okay. Um, they come from Europe, actually.
[00:05:06] They’re very nice, but
[00:05:07] Steve Davis: And rather alarmingly, you’ve put out two shot glasses. I have,
[00:05:11] Alison Pilborough: yes.
[00:05:14] Steve Davis: Why don’t you just give us the brief overview of what we’re about to try, then we’ll crack it open, we’ll toast our late patron, and we’ll get into it.
[00:05:21] Alison Pilborough: Alright, so this is an 18 hour immersion cold brew of a light roasted egg.
[00:05:28] Ethiopian natural processed bean.
[00:05:31] Steve Davis: I have so many questions.
[00:05:33] Alison Pilborough: They could wait. Here we go. Let’s get
[00:05:36] Steve Davis: some of this in glasses. Look at that.
[00:05:40] Alison Pilborough: Now, it is quite concentrated, but given that you’re a short black drinker, I am quite sure you won’t have a problem with it. When I serve it to customers, normally it’s about a 50 50 dilution with either milk or Just cold water on, yeah, and over ice.
[00:05:59] Steve Davis: But we’re doing it neat. We’re
[00:06:01] Alison Pilborough: doing it neat today.
[00:06:02] Steve Davis: So, before we taste it, let us toast our late patron, Queen Adelaide, to the Queen. To the Queen. Alright, I am nervous. And the reason there’s been some, it’s not antipathy, but some anxiety, is I, I have only ever consumed espresso shots at the normal proper temperature with that nice crema.
[00:06:27] Beautiful.
[00:06:27] Alison Pilborough: Don’t think of it as coffee.
[00:06:29] Steve Davis: Oh, okay. Well, there’s our first tip.
[00:06:31] Alison Pilborough: Think of it as a different beverage, something a little unusual, and then get your mindset out of I know what coffee is and into something different.
[00:06:41] Steve Davis: I’m up for that challenge. I’m up for that. Here we go. So, it’s a hot day, and I’ve come in, and Ali’s given me a dose of the good stuff.
[00:06:50] Here we go. Now,
[00:06:56] It’s, wow, okay, the very first thing that went through my mind is that And by the way, regular listener Alexis, get ready for your drinking game. I’m about to mention Budapest again. Um, when I lived in Budapest, there was a wonderful liqueur spirit called, uh, Unicum.
[00:07:15] Alison Pilborough: Okay.
[00:07:16] Steve Davis: And Unicum comes in a round black, like a monk’s bottle, with a red cross on it.
[00:07:22] And it’s a Bitter, herbal, strong liqueur, and you have anything wrong with you, you take a shot or two of Unicum, it’s, it’s fixed.
[00:07:34] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, okay.
[00:07:35] Steve Davis: But there was something in the, the overlay on my palate when I just took the first sip there, that hearkened back to that. I’m not saying this is bitter at all, but it’s No.
[00:07:46] There’s a herbal character to this.
[00:07:48] Alison Pilborough: Yes, and that’s part of the characteristic from the bean and the fact that it’s light roasted as well. Um, a little later I’ll bring some of the green beans over and you can have a smell of the fruit that comes off it before it’s even roasted. And it brings it, it’s very nice.
[00:08:05] Steve Davis: So, and this is Supposedly for people who like their coffee, but it’s summer.
[00:08:11] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:08:12] Steve Davis: This is, and and they’re soft, you know, and they, this is for them to enjoy this, I suppose. Would you, so you do mixes, say 50 50 of things, but could you also take this just over ice as a long sipper?
[00:08:30] Alison Pilborough: Oh, of course you could, absolutely.
[00:08:33] Steve Davis: That’s a really interesting idea, you know. Because we just got ourselves an ice machine. So we finally have ice at home. And with summer coming up. Oh.
[00:08:46] Alison Pilborough: It is, it, uh. I’m not quite sure whether there’s evidence as such, but it’s suggested, widely suggested that cold brew has a higher concentration of caffeine than espresso.
[00:08:58] Steve Davis: So now you’re just trying to bait the hawk.
[00:09:01] Alison Pilborough: Only because it sits for so long. Caffeine is very water soluble, but if you’ve got it sitting for 18 hours in water, more caffeine is going to extract than what you get out of an espresso machine.
[00:09:11] Steve Davis: So tell me, so just to finish off, I’m in the glass by the way.
[00:09:15] It looks like, actually it looks like tea. It
[00:09:17] Alison Pilborough: does a little. Strong,
[00:09:18] Steve Davis: it looks like a strong tea. Um, the other thing on my palate was there was a hint, a medicinal hint to it, which I guess is part and parcel with that herbal influence that I just enjoyed. Um, but it’s It doesn’t leave a lot of aftertaste, it sort of, it goes through, like you’re standing at the railway station, the train goes past, and then a little bit of the wind is kicked up after it’s left, but soon everything is settled again.
[00:09:43] It’s
[00:09:43] Alison Pilborough: quite clean, yeah. Um, how do you make,
[00:09:50] Steve Davis: without giving away trade secrets?
[00:09:51] Alison Pilborough: No, it’s not a trade secret. If, the easiest way to make it is if you have a coffee plunger. Yeah. You want to grind your beans quite coarse, but not quite as coarse as you would for a plunger.
[00:10:03] Steve Davis: So
[00:10:04] Alison Pilborough: a little bit
[00:10:05] Steve Davis: finer? A little bit finer.
[00:10:06] But not espresso level
[00:10:08] Alison Pilborough: fine? No, no, not espresso level fine at all. And, um, literally, uh, room temperature water. I do 100 grams of coffee to about a litre of water. Stir it, let it sit for 18 hours.
[00:10:22] Steve Davis: In a fridge?
[00:10:23] Alison Pilborough: No.
[00:10:24] Steve Davis: Room
[00:10:24] Alison Pilborough: temperature. Oh, room
[00:10:26] Steve Davis: temperature, yes. Just room
[00:10:26] Alison Pilborough: temperature. Just sit it on the bench and let it do its thing.
[00:10:29] Steve Davis: For about 18 hours? Mm hmm.
[00:10:30] Alison Pilborough: And then you’d plunge it to, to strain the grinds out and, and, um, you lose, eh, about 300 mils of water just in soakage into the bean. Um, and, um, and then just fridge it and you’re done.
[00:10:44] Steve Davis: And then how long could you keep that fridged?
[00:10:46] Alison Pilborough: About two weeks.
[00:10:48] Steve Davis: Wow, what a great alternative, like, because it’s got that adult flavor profile, because it’s not sweet.
[00:10:54] Alison Pilborough: No.
[00:10:55] Steve Davis: It’s got, yeah.
[00:10:56] Alison Pilborough: And it’s much better than getting an iced coffee at the Cerveau and having all of that sugar and all of that weird instant sort of
[00:11:05] Steve Davis: Mmm. Yuck. I’m with you on that, my nose screwed up as well. Um, now, how can people get their hands on your cold brew?
[00:11:16] Alison Pilborough: They can come in here and buy some. So they can come into the shop and we’re going to open, which is Saturdays from 9 till 3.
[00:11:25] And Thursday nights from 5 till 8.
[00:11:27] Steve Davis: And that’s at Elevenses, on the cusp, on the edge of the Aldinga Eco Village, which we just had an episode based here as well, so it’s almost becoming the Aldinga Village Adelaide show podcast. So that’s where you can get it, the real deal. From what you’ve just said, you could have a cra Oh, you could come here and buy beans.
[00:11:48] You
[00:11:49] Alison Pilborough: can come here and buy beans. So I specifically roast this specific bean this specific way for the cold brew. So
[00:11:56] Steve Davis: And you grind it? Yeah, yeah, I can grind it. See, that’s the trick. That’s great. So, wow, you can get some and make some yourself. See yourself through summer. We’ve got some stinking hot days coming up.
[00:12:07] Don’t we just? Um, all right. So that’s all that’s left for me to say is the Fleurieu roast. Cold brew, the 18 hour cold brew is the South Australian drink of the week.
[00:12:40] If there’s something that is universally human, it’s greeting others and offering them a beverage, typically a tea or a coffee. And what you find in life, when you’re looking for purveyors of such beverages, They tend to either fit in one camp or the other. Not so our guest for the Adelaide show in this episode.
[00:13:06] Alison Pilborough, uh, here at Eleven’s, at the Ordinga Eco Village, has two hats and two businesses. One is Wiverstone Tea, we’ll talk more about that. And the other one is Fleurieu Roast, which is known to many people because those coffee beans turn up in cafes all around the place. Ali, welcome to the formal part of the podcast.
[00:13:30] Alison Pilborough: Nice to see you again, Steve. Yes.
[00:13:33] Steve Davis: Now, I want to untangle so many different things. Mm hmm. Because I did mention most people in your field are in one camp or the other.
[00:13:43] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:13:44] Steve Davis: I am in the coffee camp. But I want to give due diligence, uh, to the tea side of you. Because in fact, the whole reason we’re sitting here is many, many years ago, tea was the beverage that first passed your tongue.
[00:14:01] Alison Pilborough: It was, yes. And
[00:14:02] Steve Davis: grabbed your heart.
[00:14:03] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:14:03] Steve Davis: Can you take us through That, uh, the way that you were enamoured of that leaf.
[00:14:10] Alison Pilborough: I think, when I was very small, we weren’t allowed tea or coffee. Mm hmm. Um, parents have health concerns for such beverages. Yep. But the first thing, when I was, I think, 12, Probably about 11 was I was allowed to have the second dunking of mother’s teabag.
[00:14:30] So I had a tiny little bit of tea flavor in my hot drink and it kind of just snowballed from there and got stronger and stronger as I got older. And also, um, when I was about 19, I did a um, diploma in herbal, western herbal medicine, which Took me down the herbal tea route as well And so all of that sort of has pulled together and brought the tea business to where it’s at.
[00:15:01] So
[00:15:01] Steve Davis: you and I had a similar Junction with tea because I was around that age when my maternal grandmother Coming back from a day in the city.
[00:15:12] Alison Pilborough: Mm
[00:15:13] Steve Davis: hmm would have a cup of tea And made a little cup for me, with half a Zakkarin tablet in it, and I hated it.
[00:15:22] Alison Pilborough: Oh, really?
[00:15:23] Steve Davis: Do you think? And it was milky tea as well.
[00:15:25] Yes, yep. I just didn’t understand it.
[00:15:29] Alison Pilborough: Was
[00:15:29] Steve Davis: I just too, but you did, didn’t you?
[00:15:32] Alison Pilborough: Oh, I found it fabulous. And see, I wasn’t allowed sugar that much as a child either. So literally the hot drinks that we had was hot water with milk in it. That was it. Yep. And it was more water than milk out of a budgetary sort of constraint.
[00:15:46] And having that little bit of extra flavor in there was just like a whole new world. It was amazing.
[00:15:53] Steve Davis: And so you’ve got tannins, it’s not something an 11 year old would gravitate to, I would have thought.
[00:15:58] Alison Pilborough: I have strange taste buds anyway, I think is the word. I like sour and bitter flavours, and I like that sort of depth in things, and I’ve never really had a sweet tooth, so I think that probably is it.
[00:16:11] Has helped with my appreciation for the tea.
[00:16:14] Steve Davis: If I fast forward to my stage in life, I’m now a little bit past 11.
[00:16:18] Alison Pilborough: Mm.
[00:16:19] Steve Davis: Um. Just a smidge. Just a smidge, thank you. I still haven’t, my heart’s wanted to go to the tea side a little bit. Haven’t yet, I find that if I do I’m trying to tell myself I like it. What am I missing?
[00:16:34] It’s like someone who, um, you’re trying to introduce, to say, symphonic music, and you go to the orchestra, now if they’re playing Elton John’s greatest hits, it’s easier to access it. What is the Elton John’s greatest hits when it comes to tea to bring someone across, or is it not? Could I just have a DNA disconnection with tea?
[00:16:56] Alison Pilborough: I think perhaps, have you only ever had tea bags?
[00:16:59] Steve Davis: No, no, I’ve tried loose leaf, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:01] Alison Pilborough: Alright. It might just be that you don’t like tea in and of itself. Have you, have you played around with any herbal teas? Have you looked at alternatives that aren’t the tea plant?
[00:17:13] Steve Davis: Well, I had lemon and ginger tea at times of sickness, and I enjoy that.
[00:17:19] They are from a tea bag though, to be fair. That’s alright. But they hit the spot, they’re nice, but the moment I’m well, they don’t seem to be nice enough to, uh, get a Guernsey in the main game. They’ve done their job. I see them as very practical. They’ve got a job. association as
[00:17:36] Alison Pilborough: well, no doubt, with being unwell and not wanting to take that when you are well, because that’s
[00:17:43] Steve Davis: Yes.
[00:17:44] And I found some of the other berry infused ones and others. You can tell that there’s sort of berry lurking, but it feels like it’s, um, You know how a little kid can put its hands on its eyes so you can’t see me? It’s like the tea’s going, I really am strawberry, or blueberry. No you’re not, you’re bloody tea.
[00:18:04] It could just, I haven’t, I don’t know, is there, if there’s any, I’m sure I’m not alone.
[00:18:11] Alison Pilborough: No, not at all. And that’s part of the reason why I run the tea and the coffee in this as separate entities. Because people often very strongly identify as one or the other and never the paths shall meet. Except you do find that people who are very strongly identify as tea drinkers will still have a latte when they’re in a cafe.
[00:18:31] And people who very strongly identify as coffee drinkers will still have a cup of tea when they go visit their mother.
[00:18:37] Steve Davis: Yes, well look, I would love to swing both ways. But I I haven’t found the go to yet. And I get the sense from you, Ali, that You’re not here to preach at us to drinkers, but I just want you to pretend you were for a moment.
[00:18:54] If you were like the church of the latter day tea sellers, and you were going door to door, what would be your thing to try and guarantee my salvation as a tea drinker? What would you push?
[00:19:06] Alison Pilborough: Oh, I think I would push quality, because I think a lot of people’s experience of tea is a Lipton teabag, and It’s, you can’t compare.
[00:19:18] It’s apples and oranges. It’s, it’s not even the same fruit. It’s apples and cucumbers. Teabag tea is, um, just awful compared to the real loose leaf, large leaf tea made properly in a teapot with a proper circulation of water and getting all of the real good flavors out of it. It’s just absolutely amazing.
[00:19:40] Steve Davis: And would you be advising me to add some milk to that or is it? No, good.
[00:19:45] Alison Pilborough: No, no, have it black.
[00:19:47] Steve Davis: Have it black.
[00:19:48] Alison Pilborough: If you, if you want to be a little bit fancy, put a squeeze of lemon in it. Oh. Particularly if you’re doing something like an Earl Grey, put a little bit of lemon in it and boost that citrusy flavour.
[00:20:00] Steve Davis: Okay, all right, well I’ll take that as noted. Now in the world of teas though, um, because we’re going to do most of our chat about Fleurieu rose. Yes. Uh, but, um To give our tea people, you know, a chance so they feel, like, token level, they’ve been welcomed into the Adelaide show. Uh, hello, Robert Godden. Um Any trends, uh, in the tea world that you’re noticing with what you’re doing at the moment, or something that’s selling particularly well that surprises you, or doesn’t surprise you?
[00:20:29] Alison Pilborough: I, there’s a couple of trends, um, and I’m, it might be due to the time of year. I have a lot of people coming in and buying my chamomile blend. They want something that will help them relax at the end of the day. They need something that’ll help them sleep. And, um, and the newest blend that I made. Has, um, some blue lotus in it, and it’s designed specifically to help you sleep and remember your dreams, and, um, encourages lucid dreaming experiences.
[00:20:58] So, that one has been going very well as well. It seems like a lot of people need some help relaxing. Yes. So, that as opposed to the black tea or some of the other blends that I have to sort of keep you motivated. It’s more at the other end of the scale with tea and wine. Have you
[00:21:15] Steve Davis: been drinking that one?
[00:21:16] With the blue loaded? Mmm,
[00:21:17] Alison Pilborough: maybe.
[00:21:19] Steve Davis: Can you tell me about a dream you’ve had recently?
[00:21:21] Alison Pilborough: Oh, Lord, no, you don’t want to know. There was a very expensive guitar involved, that’s all I can say.
[00:21:27] Steve Davis: Wow. I couldn’t afford
[00:21:29] Alison Pilborough: it, which was a shame, but anyway.
[00:21:31] Steve Davis: Well, actually, look, this reminds me, I’m sure she won’t mind, but my eldest, ACL surgery, had a dream she was playing soccer.
[00:21:39] And kicked the ball with her foot in her dream, that is the one that’s had all the muscle cut out of it. Oh no. Woke her up screaming. Yeah. So we won’t give her any more lucid tea inducing, dream inducing tea just yet. Um, okay, so the Kabama and the Blacks and those things are still
[00:21:58] Alison Pilborough: They’re steady, but um, yeah, there’s definitely been an uptick in something that isn’t caffeinated that people need to help them wind down at the end of the day, so.
[00:22:07] Yeah. Okay.
[00:22:08] Steve Davis: All right. Well, look, let us shift gear to, well, let’s go up the mountain, um, to the world of coffee. Uh, so Fleurieu Roast. Now you’re, you’ve taken the reins of Fleurieu Roast. Yes. And that’s because you knew the people who were here before you.
[00:22:23] Alison Pilborough: Yes. So, um, Ben who, Started the company. Um, he and I worked together before he even started roasting.
[00:22:32] We volunteered together on a couple of committees and we’ve got quite a long sort of history. And, um, then he started roasting and I came along with him because we took the show on the road for a while and he needed a spare set of hands behind the coffee machine. So, um, yeah, we’ve been working together for a long time.
[00:22:49] And when I Started blending the teas. It was partially because I saw that gap when we were at markets with coffee and Pulled that in then and it I’ve blended teas from this building ever since because I’ve shared space with Ben the whole time so And then at the beginning of, well, sort of halfway through last year, he started stepping back from the coffee, and I kind of started taking over, and then in January I bought it, so.
[00:23:18] Steve Davis: Well, there you go. And that’s January 2024, just depending whenever you listen to this, to give it some context. Um, we got the, the 11 year old, Ali, with her, uh, dalliance with tea. When did coffee enter your world?
[00:23:32] Alison Pilborough: Was it
[00:23:33] Steve Davis: through
[00:23:34] Alison Pilborough: Ben? No, coffee started for me when I got a job in my mid twenties, which was at a petrol station, as one does sometimes.
[00:23:46] And I was the barista at the petrol station, which sounds absolutely dreadful, because I’m aware of what a petrol station coffee could be like. But it did certainly, uh, give Give me a good grounding in making coffee fast and, and volume and turnover and all that sort of thing. And, um, there’s this thing that happens if you stand behind a coffee machine all day and you get a lot of people who want half shots or, um, you know, a single shot and you’re only using a double group head and that is, oh, that’s a shot.
[00:24:19] I’ll just drink that. Oh, there’s a spare. I’ll just drink that. And all of a sudden you’re drinking 16 shots of coffee in a day. Um, but you know, There it is.
[00:24:30] Steve Davis: Wow, I used to know a guy called Nino, I can’t remember his surname, he ran Cafe Venere, which is no longer, and he said the same thing. He was somewhere between 12 to 16 shots a day.
[00:24:40] He said, so was his dad, who was in his late 80s, and he was quite worried about his dad and took him to the doctor and said, this is what’s happening, what do we do, get him to wean down? The doctor said no.
[00:24:51] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, it’s keeping him going.
[00:24:52] Steve Davis: It is. Mm. Like if you. Dismantle that, um, just keep it going there, and I haven’t heard the end of it.
[00:24:59] I mean, I imagine they’re probably still going.
[00:25:00] Alison Pilborough: They might be. You never know.
[00:25:02] Steve Davis: So, now, in, in that, um, that intersection of busyness and pragmatism of the service station coffee, don’t worry, we’ll leave the service station before too long, but there’s, you would notice some, like, Is it true that the people who would be grabbing their coffee there are doing it for the caffeine level rather than the aromatics and the flavours, or am I just being up myself?
[00:25:30] Alison Pilborough: I, I think you might be partially right, but I also think that there’s a habit. There’s a level of habit. So we would see the same people every day. Um, they come in, they put some petrol in their car, they get a coffee, they leave. And, not even necessarily daily, but like, there’d be a weekly cycle. And it’s, it’s this ingrained habit.
[00:25:52] This is what we do here. Gotcha.
[00:25:53] Steve Davis: Like
[00:25:54] Alison Pilborough: Pavlov’s
[00:25:55] Steve Davis: dog. The bell rings. Pretty much, yeah. I need
[00:25:57] Alison Pilborough: fuel, therefore I’m going to get my coffee. It’s just a thing that happened.
[00:26:02] Steve Davis: And, does a little bit of you die when that happens? Because, here’s what I mean by that. And again, um, look, I’m just gonna say it right now, I might sound up myself during this interview, because I care deeply about people enjoying coffee, or wine, or whiskey, or whatever it is, for that flavour experience, not just because it’s what you do.
[00:26:29] Not saying I’m 100 percent perfect on that front, but it’s what drives me. So, to see us coming in robotically, having it, do you, did you, ever a part of you wish Why don’t you just try something different. I mean, this is the man who only drinks espresso shots. So, you know, treat it with derision. Um, if need be.
[00:26:48] They may not even taste it. They just
[00:26:50] Alison Pilborough: No, it’s just, it’s just a habit. It’s a, it’s a daily thing that they do. Um, I don’t know that necessarily a part of me really died, because it probably wasn’t until Ben really started roasting that I learned that there was
[00:27:04] Steve Davis: Difference, a nuance. A
[00:27:05] Alison Pilborough: difference, and, and that there was such a broad range of sort of beans available and what that meant, and, and even the height where they’re grown makes a difference, and all of those sorts of things, and I didn’t have a clue back when I was working at the petrol station.
[00:27:19] Yeah, yeah. Coffee came in two kilo bags, and it was just sitting around, and it wasn’t properly, you know, looked after, and, yeah, so I didn’t really know. And hindsight tells me, oh.
[00:27:30] Steve Davis: But
[00:27:31] Alison Pilborough: hindsight’s a different thing.
[00:27:33] Steve Davis: But just one dynamic, when you’re there or when you’re at the coffee cart out and about, is part of the reason why baristas can remember our names is because you see us in the category of the latte drinker who wears those shirts all the time and it’s easier to remember.
[00:27:49] Are you seeing us as
[00:27:51] Alison Pilborough: types? I am a terrible, terrible name taker. But even though it’s been a good 20 years since I worked at that petrol station, I can still see customers walk past me and I go, there’s Mr Long Black with two sugars.
[00:28:06] Steve Davis: I
[00:28:06] Alison Pilborough: remember coffee orders, not names. So I can look at a face and remember a coffee order, but not their actual name.
[00:28:13] Steve Davis: Wow. And because it’s all that thing about perspective. You’re looking at us through a particular lens. Yeah. And it’s a reduced set of notes to choose from, and so there is that connection. Yep. Oh, that’s fascinating. But you’re not one of those baristas that would say, G’day, Steve. Because you’d say, Hello, how are you?
[00:28:33] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, pretty much. I’d look at people and say, Hi, do you want your usual? And then I’d know it, and they wouldn’t have to ask. They wouldn’t have to order, because I’d know. See, that’s nice.
[00:28:43] Steve Davis: Actually, I probably prefer that over even having my name remembered. Just the usual just sounds good. Um, I hope they gave you good tips when you did that.
[00:28:52] Alison Pilborough: Well, sometimes.
[00:28:54] Steve Davis: So, look, just while we’re on the out and about, um, the one thing about the coffee being sold at a fair, or a market, is the lines seem to queue up incredibly largely. Yes. Why?
[00:29:14] Alison Pilborough: Because everybody loves a coffee when they’re out and about. They go, they go shopping, they’re looking at all the things and they’ve got an empty hand and they fill it with a coffee cup and sometimes they fill the other hand with a muffin but you know, empty hand syndrome I think it is.
[00:29:30] Steve Davis: Yeah.
[00:29:30] Alison Pilborough: Yeah.
[00:29:31] Steve Davis: The world must look so different to you. It
[00:29:34] Alison Pilborough: kind of does, I don’t know. I see coffee everywhere and I think that’s fine. And I don’t consider myself, even now, to be a coffee snob by any means. If I’m out and I feel like I need a coffee, I don’t mind where I get it from.
[00:29:47] Steve Davis: Okay. Well, you did just serve up some cold brew earlier.
[00:29:50] I did just serve up
[00:29:51] Alison Pilborough: some cold brew. Hang on a minute.
[00:29:55] Steve Davis: I’m going to put you on the spot here. Yes. Um, and this is one part that you’re not allowed to ask to be vetoed from the final recording.
[00:30:02] Alison Pilborough: Okay.
[00:30:03] Steve Davis: In a busy cafe selling scenario, when you’ve got all these milk coffee drinkers queued up making lattes and this and that, and someone comes in and says, can I just have an espresso please?
[00:30:14] Mm
[00:30:15] Alison Pilborough: hmm.
[00:30:15] Steve Davis: Double shot, maybe, just an espresso. Mm hmm. Do you believe, like I do, That that order should be bunted to the top of the line and just pushed through because they are at the top of the pops of appreciating the bean in full transparency and they should be rewarded thus.
[00:30:33] Alison Pilborough: I would suggest that if there was more than one barista behind the machine, that we could certainly crank out the order.
[00:30:44] a double espresso shot and put that in front of the queue, because normally you’ve got one person pulling shots and the other person doing milk. Milk takes the time. Yes, exactly. So if you’ve got two people, um, absolutely. If there’s only one barista behind that machine and there’s milk orders in front, they’re probably already halfway through some of the milk and can’t really stop.
[00:31:05] Steve Davis: Fair enough, but there is a special bond when I am that person and the barista gives a knowing nod when they see the order. And you just know, that they know,
[00:31:15] Alison Pilborough: and
[00:31:15] Steve Davis: they’re
[00:31:16] Alison Pilborough: going to do,
[00:31:17] Steve Davis: it’s a beautiful thing. Um, and look, anyone else can make access to such things, just stop ordering with milk.
[00:31:26] Alison Pilborough: On that.
[00:31:26] You’re talking to someone who had an oat milk latte this morning, I’m just going to say that.
[00:31:30] Steve Davis: Okay, now I’ve got to ask, because you’re roasting now, full on roasting. Yes. You understand the nuances and the flavours. Mm hmm. Again. When someone then adds milk to the coffee from my impoverished little narrow view of the world I go what a waste all those little hard workers growing those those berries and Extracting the seed and all that sort of stuff and now we’ve washed it over with milk But I’m probably skewing that incorrectly.
[00:31:59] There’s probably some other marriage between milk and coffee that’s going on Can you talk us through that dynamic? I
[00:32:05] Alison Pilborough: think um Um Firstly, not everybody’s taste buds are the same. Not everyone experiences all flavors the same. I can be really specific and, um, My father, who has Alzheimer’s at the moment, his taste buds have changed hugely.
[00:32:23] He used to be a mad Shiraz drinker, and now he can’t abide those big, um, structural tannins in wine anymore. And now he’s drinking Merlot, because he can’t do it. Just can’t do it. Um, and at the same time, everything he eats, he needs to cover in sweet chilli sauce, so he can taste that. Okay. So he Taste buds change with time.
[00:32:47] Taste buds change, um, you know, with genetics, so not everybody is going to experience or want the same sort of flavors. So that’s the first point. I’m not looking at my cold brew when I say that. No, never.
[00:33:03] Steve Davis: We might go a second one in a moment.
[00:33:04] Alison Pilborough: Oh, that sounds promising.
[00:33:08] Steve Davis: All right, keep going, I’m listening.
[00:33:09] Alison Pilborough: So, short blacks are beautiful.
[00:33:12] Steve Davis: Yes.
[00:33:12] Alison Pilborough: And, um, I quite appreciate a short black, but not all the time. So my, what I choose to drink depends on my mood and I will have a style of coffee. Usually when I get up at home, I use a plunger. I don’t have an espresso machine at home currently, and I’m quite happy with a plunger coffee in the morning.
[00:33:32] I like it. Um, it sort of kicks that little beginning bit off and it’s just, that’s where my happy place is in the morning. Um, Usually around about sort of Half an hour or an hour after that, I’m starting with the, with the espresso machine and making normally a latte. Okay. Um, and then depending on what I feel like the rest of the day, sometimes I’ll have a shot with orange juice.
[00:33:59] Steve Davis: Yes, I know. You did shock me with that a little while ago. Especially on a hot
[00:34:03] Alison Pilborough: day.
[00:34:04] Steve Davis: What country does that harken from?
[00:34:05] Alison Pilborough: Thailand. It’s really big in Thailand.
[00:34:08] Steve Davis: A shot of espresso.
[00:34:09] Alison Pilborough: Over ice.
[00:34:10] Steve Davis: Over ice. Mixed with orange juice. How much orange juice?
[00:34:14] Alison Pilborough: Um, a lot. So, in a standard, sort of, um, 385ml, sort of, 12oz cup or whatever, it’s literally a shot of espresso over ice, and then to the brim with orange juice.
[00:34:27] Steve Davis: Um, well, that would probably taste a bit like canotto.
[00:34:33] Alison Pilborough: It might. I haven’t really drunk much of that. That
[00:34:38] Steve Davis: is a bitter citrus.
[00:34:39] Alison Pilborough: Yes, it definitely brings out some bitterness because orange juice has its own bitterness as well as the sweetness. And then you put the espresso in it and it just combines in such a different way.
[00:34:50] I quite like it.
[00:34:53] Steve Davis: Okay, um, one day. If I return to Elevensers, which is your lovely place of work here at the Odinga eco village. Um, I’m up for trying one of those because I think life’s too short to be complete snob in certain ways, but so milk It’s what you feel like.
[00:35:15] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:35:15] Steve Davis: But I’m just, as far as, does it still honour the bean?
[00:35:19] Alison Pilborough: It does. It brings out different notes. So it smooths some of the bitterness that you can find in some roast, depending. Right. Um, but, and it carries those chocolatey flavours really, really well, I find.
[00:35:31] Steve Davis: Now you’re trying to bait the hook.
[00:35:32] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, maybe. And the different milks are quite different. Um, obviously dairy milk is probably the most popular of all of the varieties that we have these days.
[00:35:45] And dairy, I think, carries, um, the chocolatey even perhaps more than some of the plant based milks.
[00:35:54] Steve Davis: Well, Mel Usher, the newsreader from 5AA, she was on the Adelaide show many years ago, and she was the only person in the world who’s ever had me drink milk. She gave me Farmer’s Union iced coffee, that’s her go to.
[00:36:08] And sure, it was sweet. It was actually really quite enjoyable.
[00:36:15] But I still, it’s not enough for me to sully the beauty of when it’s, I think, the perfect art of an asbestos shot this way, but I understand it more now, and so some people will choose a certain milk to go with it because of dietary
[00:36:30] Alison Pilborough: restrictions,
[00:36:31] Steve Davis: but if you don’t have them, are you saying that a person with the full faculty of anything they want could deliberately colour their palate by having dairy one day, oat another, soy?
[00:36:43] And it’s, it is like a palette.
[00:36:45] Alison Pilborough: Yep, you can play around with it and you get different tones based on them. The trick with plant milks often is that different brands also have different, um, yeah, different formulations will carry things differently as well, which can make it complicated.
[00:37:02] Steve Davis: You are taking me into the dark spaces that I don’t normally tread in with coffee, but while you’re here, you mentioned getting up in the morning and having a plunger.
[00:37:08] Yes. One thing I see on American TV that I’m envious of, but I would never do, is they have their coffee drippalator going. Yes. or a plunger, or the stovetop espresso, and I, there was a part in my life when I didn’t have an espresso machine where that was my espresso machine, and I remember being able to pour that big generous long cup, take it to my desk and work away, and there’s something romantic about that, which I don’t get with espresso, obviously.
[00:37:37] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:38] Steve Davis: Um, that’s, yeah. The plunge was a very different beast, but again, you got that, you get the benefit of that being able to be longer, over a longer time. Yeah, absolutely,
[00:37:50] Alison Pilborough: and you can sit on the back veranda and listen to the birds and just have a big conversation. Cup of coffee. Just, yeah.
[00:37:58] Steve Davis: What would, if you were able to use AI and DNA and create a human who was going to be the perfect coffee connoisseur, describe their day.
[00:38:11] What sort of coffee and what sort of ways would they consume it? What’s your idea? And a weekday and perhaps a weekend day.
[00:38:18] Alison Pilborough: Oh, there
[00:38:19] Steve Davis: you go.
[00:38:20] Alison Pilborough: Oh, you’re going to make me think now. I think. Okay, if it was me, I suppose. Well, it’s mini you. It’s mini you. It’s idyllic you. I don’t think you can get much smaller than me, Steve.
[00:38:35] I wasn’t going to mention that. Um, yeah, I think I’d probably stick with a plunger in the morning, I think. Um, even if I, um, or which I will eventually have, have my espresso machine set up at the house, I still think I’d have a plunger in the morning. It’s, it might have been a habit now, but it just It’s good and I do have it with a little bit of milk.
[00:38:58] Steve Davis: Mm hmm.
[00:38:58] Alison Pilborough: Just just cold milk
[00:39:00] Steve Davis: It’s like you’re apologizing as you say that.
[00:39:02] Alison Pilborough: Oh, yeah. Well, look what you’ve done to me
[00:39:05] Steve Davis: Okay, and now just very quick footnote. Don’t forget where we’re going with this, but yes plunger and when I have plunger Which is normally, go away, and the Airbnb people have said there’s a coffee machine, and there isn’t, so you go down, you buy a plunger, um, and then you put in, I tend to put four to six heaped tablespoons of coffee, I put hot water in, roughly to the same height as the coffee, make a sludge, then top it up, put the lid on top, and then after a little while, Plunge for five minutes.
[00:39:39] Yeah,
[00:39:40] Alison Pilborough: the
[00:39:40] Steve Davis: only the only
[00:39:41] Alison Pilborough: question I have for you is what grind are you using? But I’m assuming if you’ve gone down to the shops It’s whatever they have and often that’s ground a little too fine for a plunger to get the right sort of tones out
[00:39:54] Steve Davis: I have also experienced a little too coarse and then you get that So that’s
[00:39:59] Alison Pilborough: how okay, so
[00:40:01] Steve Davis: this is so the ideal mini Ali,
[00:40:06] Alison Pilborough: yes.
[00:40:06] Would have a plunger in one. Would have a
[00:40:08] Steve Davis: plunger.
[00:40:08] Alison Pilborough: Yes, absolutely. Why? Um. It might just be an emotional thing
[00:40:14] Steve Davis: But from a practical is it just fit into the schedule easier?
[00:40:17] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, it does Yeah Because I can sit there I can bloom those grounds and let them and then let them sit while I go and do something else and get other things ready for the day and what have you and Then come back to it and I love that I can sit and just relax.
[00:40:32] I’m not chained to the machine in front of me I can do it I love
[00:40:36] Steve Davis: that term. Bloom the ground. That’s
[00:40:38] Alison Pilborough: what you do.
[00:40:40] Steve Davis: Beautiful. I’m picturing bloomers.
[00:40:42] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, okay.
[00:40:44] Steve Davis: Anyway, so you’ve had that. Yes. And then what does the ideal human then do?
[00:40:48] Alison Pilborough: Uh, oh, hang on. This is very complicated because my brain’s like, well, it’s a work day.
[00:40:54] I suppose that means I have to go to work.
[00:40:56] Steve Davis: Okay, work day.
[00:40:56] Alison Pilborough: So, um, It would have to be somewhere where there’s espresso from then on.
[00:41:02] Steve Davis: That would be in your
[00:41:03] Alison Pilborough: job hunting. That would be a hundred percent. Yes. I couldn’t not have espresso either exactly there or very, very close by.
[00:41:12] Steve Davis: Well, when I met Nino from Cafe Vineros, around the corner from where I worked, with a lovely man, he’s no longer with us, Nick Kerr, he was my boss.
[00:41:18] He was a coffee fiend. He was so easy to wrap around your fingers. So we didn’t have a coffee machine at work, but we would be going around the block for a coffee at least four or five times a day. He was so easy. Nick, would you like a coffee? Yes, let’s have a coffee meeting. So, I agree with you. Needs
[00:41:36] Alison Pilborough: to be near coffee.
[00:41:38] Steve Davis: I’ve got espressos, but you would let people have latte or whatever they want. Yes, absolutely. Is there a time of day when you’d say, that’s it for the coffee?
[00:41:45] Alison Pilborough: Uh, for me, that depends on how I feel and what the rest of the day is going to have in front of it. Um, if I’m going to be working late, like roasting late or something like that, then I’ll probably to have the last coffee at about four ish.
[00:42:03] Steve Davis: If
[00:42:04] Alison Pilborough: I’ve got an early night planned, then maybe two o’clock.
[00:42:07] Steve Davis: Okay.
[00:42:07] Alison Pilborough: That’s kind of that little space in there.
[00:42:10] Steve Davis: And with this ideal human,
[00:42:12] Alison Pilborough: yes,
[00:42:13] Steve Davis: does, I know I skewed it down the coffee path, but would tea complement at any point through the day?
[00:42:19] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I actually still will have a cup of normal, like, Black tea around about 11 o’clock when probably everybody else is having a coffee.
[00:42:30] I will have had Had a couple of coffees by then and I’ll switch it out and I’ll have a cup of tea.
[00:42:35] Steve Davis: So it’s a spacer
[00:42:36] Alison Pilborough: Hmm kind of
[00:42:38] Steve Davis: and what about later? Does it feature again? Or is that black tea? In on a work day, which on a
[00:42:44] Alison Pilborough: work day Not usually, um, I might have a herbal tea when I get home of an evening.
[00:42:50] Steve Davis: Or, if you’re having trouble sleeping, you have your chamomile and blue lotus? Yes.
[00:42:55] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:42:56] Steve Davis: Um, what about on a weekend day for the ideal mini tea? Ali,
[00:43:01] Alison Pilborough: in the
[00:43:01] Steve Davis: future, what would she be doing?
[00:43:03] Alison Pilborough: On weekends, I’d probably just switch the espresso into an espresso martini.
[00:43:11] Steve Davis: Well, that simplifies that conversation. Yeah, that does,
[00:43:13] Alison Pilborough: really.
[00:43:14] Steve Davis: Um, I want to ask, so, Getting into the palate of people enjoying coffee, so I sometimes feel like I’m an odd one because the very first Espresso I ever had was in Trieste in northern Italy, and it was absolute perfection. It was perfection. So you found your
[00:43:31] Alison Pilborough: god coffee.
[00:43:32] Steve Davis: It is my god coffee. We’re about to catch the train back to And there’s about 30 minutes from Trieste, if I remember correctly, to the border of, uh, whatever’s down there, Slovenia, something like that. Um, the focus was on the coffee, quite frankly. That aftertaste lasted until the border and after it, of one ideal shot.
[00:43:55] Now, something in the crema was crystallized sugars, there was no sugar with it, but it was just, it was sweet, it was round, and so with barista doors, our dear listener understands, has been my blend for many years, it’s gone to the dark roast end, and I think that’s what I’m seeking. In the coffee world generally, today, I find that if I ask or try to describe that sort of coffee, I’m looked at like I’m an artifact of the past that wrote dark roasted Italian, real, true Italian coffee.
[00:44:27] What’s wrong with the coffee world or what is so right that I have left the world? The trains left the station without me.
[00:44:34] Alison Pilborough: I think that the dark roasts have definitely gone out of fashion. Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing, I couldn’t really say. Everything, almost everything I roast is essentially a medium roast.
[00:44:49] Um, except the cold brew beans, which I’d call a light roast. Um, I have a medium dark blend that pushes that boundary a little bit. And, um, We have a blend that has some Robusta beans in it that is still really only roasted medium But it gives that extra punchy punchy flavor
[00:45:12] Steve Davis: Yeah
[00:45:12] Alison Pilborough: and that’s a very again specific set of taste buds that appreciates that type of flavor and I’ve got some Quite a number of regulars who come in and that’s that’s what they want.
[00:45:23] That’s what they like. That’s what they want That’s what they get I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with a dark roast, but also I’m in the coffee business um, to sell to what my customers want. Correct. And this is what my customers want.
[00:45:40] Steve Davis: Well, that’s true, but see, we were in Melbourne recently, and there were some lovely people selling coffee with their skin tight chinos, their, their lovely beards, their man buns, and they were raving about the marzipan flavours in this coffee, which I hate, I hate marzipan.
[00:45:58] And they were so proud of it. It was nine dollars a shot.
[00:46:01] Alison Pilborough: Yes.
[00:46:01] Steve Davis: And it tasted putrid.
[00:46:03] Alison Pilborough: Yeah, okay.
[00:46:04] Steve Davis: And I thought it was the Emperor’s new clothes. They were trying to convince us that this is so good, and I’m going Nothing in my tongue is enjoying this.
[00:46:15] Alison Pilborough: But that’s just your taste.
[00:46:17] Steve Davis: Right. And
[00:46:18] Alison Pilborough: everyone has, as I think we discussed earlier, everybody has different taste profiles and different flavour choices, and it’s very, very individual.
[00:46:26] Steve Davis: What’s the most exciting roast that you do at the moment? Because you just won some awards. I
[00:46:31] Alison Pilborough: did, yes. Tell us about them. Tell us about the awards. So, um, there’s the competition that’s run every year called the Golden Bell. Bean competition. Um, and, uh, I entered the Australasian version of that, I suppose.
[00:46:44] And, um, I sent away some beans and they get judged by a, blind judged by a panel of three different judges. And I came back with two bronzes. So, I got a bronze in the, uh, short black category for our Café Mir, which is, um, a Guatemalan, uh, blend. Mostly Guatemalan with touch of Colombian in there. And I got a bronze in the latte.
[00:47:07] Um, category, which was the organic brand, which is the medium dark roast that we do. And
[00:47:12] Steve Davis: because you let me taste some of those. And that first one you mentioned, what was that? The
[00:47:16] Alison Pilborough: Mier. Yes.
[00:47:18] Steve Davis: I did like seeing Guatemala on the list, because South American coffees are beautiful. Very chocolatey. Well, they’ve got potential to be beautiful, and it was very nice.
[00:47:28] Thank you. Even though I bellyache on about all this
[00:47:30] Alison Pilborough: stuff,
[00:47:31] Steve Davis: I still thought some of those were coming close to Mie. No.
[00:47:36] Alison Pilborough: Even though they’re not quite dark enough.
[00:47:38] Steve Davis: No, no. And look, I was told that the reason people like you skew away from dark is waiting for that second crack in the coffee. Is touch or go, and if you get distracted, you’ve ruined your batch, and so it’s timidity, rather than trend.
[00:47:56] Alison Pilborough: No, no. I will take, I will share with you something that I accidentally pushed past second crack a little later, and we’ll see what you think about it. We’ll do a comparison between the same bean roasted. Just after first crack and dropped and then second crack and see whether you can taste the differences.
[00:48:17] Steve Davis: That’s a sentence I never thought I’d hear someone say to me that you’re going to let me taste something after the second crack. Um, thank you, Ali. No
[00:48:26] Alison Pilborough: problems at all.
[00:48:28] Steve Davis: Is this the point where you’re regretting this interview? No. Um, now I did want to ask the Fleurieu Roast. Tell me, what does it bring to the world that other roasting companies might not?
[00:48:43] And this is not about putting others down. This is more about celebrating what Fleurieu Roast does. Because I’m looking around, you’ve got a lovely, handsome roasting machine behind me. Beautiful. All the shinies. Hasgaranti. Hasgaranti? Yes. Yes. You roast a lot, tell me,
[00:49:01] Alison Pilborough: take us
[00:49:02] Steve Davis: through, I feel like it’s Charles Dickens like that you get, you make yourself a slave to the machine as you roast.
[00:49:08] Oh, not quite, but
[00:49:08] Alison Pilborough: no, we have a, it’s
[00:49:09] Steve Davis: a
[00:49:09] Alison Pilborough: five kilo roaster, um, which essentially means that by the time you lose your water weight and all that sort of stuff it churns out about four kilos of roasted beans at the end.
[00:49:21] Steve Davis: That’s two of those bags that you used to have at the
[00:49:24] Alison Pilborough: And
[00:49:25] Steve Davis: you’re working, how long does it take to It
[00:49:27] Alison Pilborough: takes, it takes about 15 minutes, 15 to 20 minutes to do a roast from start to finish.
[00:49:33] And um, but because it’s only a 5 kilo roaster, it means that We’re paying more attention to it. It’s a smaller batch, it’s easier to spot faults. It’s a little bit harder to control your temperature fluctuations, because you don’t have such a large amount of thermal mass, and you need to pay more attention.
[00:49:52] So everything is done very, very quickly. Particularly and with a lot of concentration for every single batch because otherwise you could just flub it and you don’t want to waste four kilos of beautiful beans.
[00:50:04] Steve Davis: And you’d have to sort of tip them out?
[00:50:07] Alison Pilborough: Oh yeah, if I’ve, um, yeah. Can I put my
[00:50:10] Steve Davis: name down on a list that if ever anything gets over roasted you just put them aside and I’ll come and I can
[00:50:16] Alison Pilborough: do that.
[00:50:16] Yeah, I can do that.
[00:50:18] Steve Davis: Because to me I’m thinking, well that’s just heaven.
[00:50:21] Alison Pilborough: The difference between When I would normally say this is done, this is the medium roast, this is the level that I like, and then over roasting is about four minutes. Wow. Yeah, it’s really pointy at that end. You really need to be paying attention and a single phone call can throw it right out the ballpark.
[00:50:42] Steve Davis: So is it like phone on aeroplane mode? Pretty much.
[00:50:47] Alison Pilborough: I sit in here and I don’t open the shop when I’m roasting. A lot of people said, Oh, can’t we come in when you’re roasting? I need to concentrate. I need to be paying attention to what I’m doing the whole time.
[00:50:58] Steve Davis: Because coffee beans have been getting more and more expensive.
[00:51:02] That also adds extra weight to paying attention, doesn’t it? Yeah,
[00:51:07] Alison Pilborough: absolutely. Because, um, particularly when, you know, four kilos is not something you want to be throwing out. It’s not, it’s not viable if that happened. So,
[00:51:19] Steve Davis: we’re talking, say, 15 minutes ish.
[00:51:22] Alison Pilborough: Does
[00:51:22] Steve Davis: that mean on a good day, you’re running through four batches in an hour, roughly?
[00:51:26] Alison Pilborough: Um, yeah, it usually works out to be about three in an hour, because there’s a cool down process. And then, um, after the cool down process has happened, like, I’ll watch while it’s cooling, often. Pick out anything, there’s sometimes you get beans that aren’t quite ripe and they’re under roasted and they’re very pale and they give a lot of really nutty nutty flavors that aren’t always what I want in all blends, so I’ll pick those out.
[00:51:53] Um, while it’s cooling, that sort of thing. And then they run, have to run them through the de stoner machine, which gets any bits of gravel that might have fallen into the bag, um, at the other end and stops them from getting into people’s grinders and destroying the grinder burrs. Um, and then obviously it’s all going to be bagged.
[00:52:12] Steve Davis: Yes.
[00:52:12] Alison Pilborough: So that we’re not exposing it to oxidation. Um, so yeah,
[00:52:16] Steve Davis: bagged almost as soon as it’s, pretty much.
[00:52:19] Alison Pilborough: That
[00:52:19] Steve Davis: means you’ve got another roast going while you’re bagging the previous one, whilst keeping an eye on the new one, and an ear as well. Because you can audibly hear the rounds of cracking, can’t you?
[00:52:30] Alison Pilborough: You can hear the crack, yes. It sounds a little bit like Cocoa Pops.
[00:52:34] Steve Davis: And do they all Generally speaking crack together
[00:52:38] Alison Pilborough: No, so it depends on the blends that are in there if you if I’m doing a single origin They’re more likely to crack together But if I’m doing a blend Particularly like the organic blend is three different coffees.
[00:52:50] So they crack it sort of slightly different times So you just monitor What’s going on? And there is a computer program that sits there and monitors the temperature and all of that sort of stuff so that I can keep an eye on that too. And there’s some very distinctive curves in the graph that show up while you’re roasting that you can, that help give you a visual cue to what’s happening inside the machine.
[00:53:12] Steve Davis: Wow. So this is all, so everyone who comes and buys one of your bags or orders one of your bags, you have seen it through from go to load?
[00:53:21] Alison Pilborough: Yes. 100%.
[00:53:23] Steve Davis: Does that make you feel more attached to the coffee that you sell? They’re my
[00:53:27] Alison Pilborough: children, almost. Yes,
[00:53:31] Steve Davis: I was going to applaud your maternal instinct, but you’re selling But I’m
[00:53:35] Alison Pilborough: selling them, yeah, oh dear.
[00:53:37] Steve Davis: Oh, there’s Charles Dickens again. Is there anything else, I mean, smoke, is there much smoke from them? Um,
[00:53:44] Alison Pilborough: it goes out the chimney, and not a lot of smoke, um, because I don’t drink. Push things past second crack. There’s not a lot of smoke. Um, there is, um, quite a bit of, uh, chaff that comes off the beans, uh, at first crack, which creates this, and you can probably see it dotted around the place because it flies everywhere, um, like a very, very dry, Almost powdery, but not little pieces of, of fibrous stuff, um, and that all gets swept and, um, delivered to a gentleman here in the village who uses it in his compost, and he takes all of the coffee grounds from the espresso machine as well, and together they make some beautiful compost, so that’s nice.
[00:54:26] But other than that, waste wise, no, there’s not much.
[00:54:31] Steve Davis: All right, so you’re doing that. How often a week are you roasting?
[00:54:34] Alison Pilborough: Um, I normally would roast every Monday night and all day Thursday and possibly Fridays, depending on demand, so.
[00:54:43] Steve Davis: And you’re servicing primarily other cafes?
[00:54:46] Alison Pilborough: I have probably an average of Equal amount of sales between retail walk in the door customers and people who order coffee online.
[00:54:55] Um, and, um, some cafes and food trucks and various, um, other wholesale clients. Yeah.
[00:55:01] Steve Davis: And you’ve got obviously different budget levels that you can roast to. Yeah. With choice of beans, but there are the occasional cafes who just say, We just want the top of the top.
[00:55:13] Alison Pilborough: That is correct. Yes.
[00:55:15] Steve Davis: Doesn’t that make your heart swell with pride?
[00:55:17] Alison Pilborough: It does actually, it’s really nice. The cafe next door to where I’m situated is, they use the Café Mieux, which is one of the bronze medal winning coffees. That was their choice and the They do fabulous coffees over there. Sometimes, even if I’m roasting here and I could just turn on my machine, I go over there and let them make me a coffee.
[00:55:40] Steve Davis: That’s great. It’s nice
[00:55:41] Alison Pilborough: when somebody else does it for you. Yeah,
[00:55:43] Steve Davis: exactly. So, um, for anyone who’s connected to anyone who runs cafes, obviously the way you’re doing it, um, Gloria Jeans is not going to be, you wouldn’t be able to keep up with their volume. And I
[00:55:55] Alison Pilborough: wouldn’t want to. Right. Um, I. I firmly believe that small businesses need other small businesses to look after them because the We understand each other We’re both in that same sort of plane if you if you take a small business and get a giant coffee producer something You know like the one that coke runs or whatever it’s called They’re not going to have an understanding of where your, your business is situated.
[00:56:21] They’re not going to understand how you feel about your business, whereas I sure do.
[00:56:27] Steve Davis: Of course you do. So, um, let’s just mention it. If there is, who is your ideal person? If there’s someone listening who’s connected to a cafe of some sort or, or a business that needs coffee, what do you look for? What would be a match made in heaven?
[00:56:41] Alison Pilborough: Um, I look for somebody who Has coffee as one of the focuses in their business? Um, not as a service that they provide on the site? Um, because I’m about good coffee. I’m not just about, oh yes, we make great sandwiches, but have a coffee with it. No, no, no. Coffee and have a sandwich with it. Does that make sense?
[00:57:03] Steve Davis: Yes, it does. Yeah. Because that’s my, when I travel. Often I will get a coffee from a bakery as a last resort.
[00:57:10] Alison Pilborough: Because
[00:57:10] Steve Davis: bakeries are good at baking.
[00:57:12] Alison Pilborough: Yes, absolutely. And
[00:57:13] Steve Davis: coffee is not really what they’re called to the world to do. So that’s what you’re saying. I mean, you would still talk to a bakery to see if they are past muster.
[00:57:21] Yes. But you’re more The cafe, that pride itself on the coffee, that might have brought in some nice cakes to sell with it. Yes,
[00:57:29] Alison Pilborough: yes.
[00:57:29] Steve Davis: It’s a subtle difference. And that’s
[00:57:30] Alison Pilborough: why I really like working with coffee vans. I really like working with people whose entire focus is coffee. That’s what they’re there for.
[00:57:40] It’s the coffee. And we, I’ve got three or four coffee vans on my books, a new one that’s just recently started as well. And, um, yeah, it’s very, very much a, you’re here for good coffee. I’m, I’m roasting good coffee.
[00:57:56] Steve Davis: Good. More of them need to come in touch with you because I’ve had such God awful coffee from coffee vans, sadly.
[00:58:01] Oh, really? Yes.
[00:58:02] Alison Pilborough: Oh, no. No.
[00:58:03] Steve Davis: Yes. So, you have a coffee van, don’t you?
[00:58:06] Alison Pilborough: I did. We did at one point. In fact, that table that you can see over there, which obviously no one else can, was the coffee van. So, that beautiful, shiny coffee machine is a dual fuel machine that runs off gas. So, we could go off grid with that machine.
[00:58:22] And, um It was great. Whether I decide to call it out and do it again is anyone’s guess.
[00:58:27] Steve Davis: Do you, so, but weren’t you recently selling at markets or something? Ah,
[00:58:31] Alison Pilborough: I sell beans at markets. Oh,
[00:58:32] Steve Davis: beans, but you don’t stand behind the machine churning them out?
[00:58:36] Alison Pilborough: Not at this stage, no. Okay,
[00:58:38] Steve Davis: so, but you will be trying to fuel some good, coffee carts.
[00:58:42] Yes. With the good stuff. Perhaps what you might be able to do after we’ve recorded this is flick through a little list of those that are using your beans and we can list them in the show notes for people. So if they’re going to book a coffee cart, get the ones who actually gets coffee first and not just, here’s a way to make a quick buck.
[00:59:01] Alison Pilborough: Yes. That’s good. I can do that.
[00:59:04] Steve Davis: Any final thoughts that you’d like to share with the world as far as Coffee is concerned, and especially from this Florio Coast perspective.
[00:59:13] Alison Pilborough: Hmm, coffee, hmm, coffee is life.
[00:59:19] Steve Davis: Wow, this is nice. Take that, it is a part of many people’s lives. What, what summoned that thought to your mind?
[00:59:30] Alison Pilborough: Probably because I don’t think I can imagine a day without a coffee somewhere in it. Like, I honestly cannot imagine not having some form of coffee somewhere during the course of any given 24 hour period. And I don’t think I’m alone in that. I think a lot of people are very much that way inclined as well.
[00:59:54] And I think taking that Need, and making it into a better quality experience, that’s something worth doing.
[01:00:08] Steve Davis: Yeah, worth savouring. Ali Pilborough.
[01:00:13] Alison Pilborough: Thank
[01:00:13] Steve Davis: you so much for being part of the Adelaide show.
[01:00:16] Alison Pilborough: Thank you for having me.
[01:00:17] Steve Davis: Thanks for taking me through the cold brew. And I believe we’re just about to try, side by side, an espresso that’s been burnt.
[01:00:28] Alison Pilborough: I call it burnt. You call it burnt, which
[01:00:30] Steve Davis: I call it perfectly roasted.
[01:00:32] Alison Pilborough: And
[01:00:33] Steve Davis: its cohort, its cousin that’s been roasted well. I might even just leave the recorder recording. So I can share our thoughts as we do this. So stand by, we’re going to play that to you in just a moment. Alright, thank you. I should mention, we’ll do it again properly in a moment, but Wiverstone Tea, we’ll put the links in the show notes, Fleurieu Roast, and of course, if you want to, Meet Ali in the Flesh.
[01:00:59] You come to Elevenses, which is a Lord of the Rings reference. I’m sure most of you have picked that up. Um, and that’s at the Odinga Eco Village on Saturdays and Thursday nights.
[01:01:10] Alison Pilborough: Yes, that’s correct. Beautiful.
[01:01:12] Steve Davis: Alright, I’ll let you get to the machine. Alright,
[01:01:14] Alison Pilborough: I shall.
[01:01:15] Steve Davis: So, this is also audio and a video.
[01:01:19] Alison Pilborough: Do you want your face in it?
[01:01:20] Steve Davis: I don’t care.
[01:01:21] Alison Pilborough: I think you should.
[01:01:22] Steve Davis: Okay.
[01:01:22] Alison Pilborough: I need to, I need to film your expression when you taste it.
[01:01:26] Steve Davis: Okay, so we’ve sat back in. We’ve just, um, uh, made two coffees. It’s the same blend. What’s the blend called? It’s called veloute. Veloute. Oh, I like that. How do you spell
[01:01:37] Alison Pilborough: that? V E L O U T E. E with a little hyphen on the top.
[01:01:41] Steve Davis: Of course. And one is done to Ali’s normal roast level, which is a medium roast. And the other one, she got distracted and it went to a second crack. All right, here we go.
[01:01:58] See, this is nice. I will say, actually, of all the sort of modern coffee blends, this one is not screaming that I’m made for milk. It hasn’t got, um, those cloying notes that need to be tamed with milk. This is actually self contained. If you walked in The perfect child. You’re, you’re going on a long car trip.
[01:02:23] Alison Pilborough: Mm hmm.
[01:02:24] Steve Davis: And you don’t need to constantly feed it books and DVDs and videos. It sits there with its arms folded, no, hands on its lap, gazing out the window, lost in thought. That’s what this coffee is. Okay. All right.
[01:02:37] Alison Pilborough: It is a single origin Brazilian bean and
[01:02:41] Steve Davis: I’m getting something on the back palette. What is that?
[01:02:45] Alison Pilborough: A little bit of milk chocolate in there.
[01:02:47] Steve Davis: Hmm, it’s something in that zone. Yeah. Alright, I’ve, I’ve, but um, there’s, there’s some tannin around the, the finish on either side. Um, That chocolate, it’s not sweet chocolate at all, it’s more, it’s more someone’s opened a chocolate bar next to you and you can, you’re smelling it.
[01:03:06] Um, it’s sitting there and there’s a slight dry finish on the tongue. Alright, so this is the dark version. Yeah, let’s just, there we go. Alright, so this is exactly the same blend. Exactly the same
[01:03:19] Alison Pilborough: blend. Okay,
[01:03:20] Steve Davis: a beautiful creme, which has still held itself, not too much difference to discern on the,
[01:03:26] Alison Pilborough: on the
[01:03:26] Steve Davis: nose.
[01:03:26] Okay. Ah. Now, you could almost say ditto to what I was explaining before, but, whereas that first version has that, that canon framework and a little bit of a flaw, F L A N E. Double OR. Yes. Not FLAW. Yeah. Floor of that subtle chocolate hint.
[01:03:52] Alison Pilborough: Mm-hmm .
[01:03:53] Steve Davis: If we think of those wagons that they went through the wild west, um, th this one, the medium roast has the framework and the tray.
[01:04:02] Alison Pilborough: Yeah.
[01:04:02] Steve Davis: But this has the billowing sale over the top. Okay. And there’s maybe some hay bales and some stuff inside. Mm-hmm . Not the taste of hay, but there is no. There’s some more body this body that’s come and it’s possibly because that extra heat has made the Sugars within the coffee excite and show themselves more.
[01:04:24] That’s what I’m getting. Yeah, does that surprise you at all?
[01:04:26] Alison Pilborough: Um, No Doesn’t necessarily surprise me. I when I smell it I go. Oh, it’s too toasted There’s there’s a lot of toastiness in there and it’s That’s too much for my palate. But obviously not for yours. I think you’re going home with a kilo of beans, just saying.
[01:04:51] Steve Davis: This is so nice. Hang on, I’ve got to grab the camera off you because we’re filming this at the same time. Now tell me Does a part of you die to hear that I’m so excited by your accident?
[01:05:03] Alison Pilborough: It was an accident. You know, it’s funny because, um, I had Ben who, um, obviously I bought the business from around for dinner last night and we were talking about this accident and he said, you wait.
[01:05:17] Someone’s going to decide they like it now that you’ve bagged it up and decided not to throw it out, and you’ll end up having to do it. And I went, oh no, that’ll never happen.
[01:05:26] Steve Davis: Ben is a fortune teller.
[01:05:27] Alison Pilborough: Oh dear, yes, apparently. That
[01:05:30] Steve Davis: is beautiful. Oh, that is so nice.
[01:05:38] Alison Pilborough: Oh dear. Okay. All right.
[01:05:41] Steve Davis: Well, there you go. Um, I hope you still have not regretted being on the Adelaide show.
[01:05:45] I have not
[01:05:45] Alison Pilborough: regretted it at all. We’ll
[01:05:47] Steve Davis: put the links to everything you do in the show notes, including those coffee carts. Ali, thank you so much for sharing your insights so candidly about tea and coffee.
[01:05:56] Alison Pilborough: Thank you for having me. It’s been my pleasure.
[01:06:11] Steve Davis: In the musical pilgrimage, we’re going a bit rockabilly to see out the year, uh, with, of course, the Saucermen. Uh, we’ve loved their music right the way through the life of the Adelaide Show podcast since 2013, and we’re taking you back to one of their earlier tracks called Devil’s Elbow in just a moment.
[01:06:29] I will just say, if there’s something, if you want to start planning ahead, depending on when you listen to this, on the 15th of March in 2025, Yes, it’s a long way out. Uh, there’s going to be a Scar vs. Rockabilly night. And it’s going to be taking place at the highway. And so that’s the, uh, 15th of March. Uh, Scar Vendors is the band from Melbourne coming across.
[01:06:52] And they’re going to do a battle with the Saucermen and some other Rockabilly outfits. So it’s going to be a night of sort of those easy to move to Scars, Hard to Be Still, and Rockabilly, Hard to Be Still when that’s playing as well. So, that’s a bit of fun, 25 tickets if you want to get along there. But right now, let’s go back to when Rockabilly was really raw over AM radio.
[01:07:18] When we used to only have the option of coming down the hill using Devil’s Elbow. With this great track by The Saucerman.
[01:10:46] Devil’s Elbow and the Saucerman, we navigated it safely, which most people did most of the time on the Devil’s Elbow, uh, which very rarely was closed for maintenance, unlike the, uh, Heysen Tunnels, but that’s progress for you, isn’t it? Have a wonderful Christmas and New Year. Festive season, you know, 24 going on 25.
[01:11:11] And we’ll have more great South Australians to chat with in the upcoming year. Until then, it’s goodnight from me, Steve Davis. Goodnight, Don.